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Author
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Topic: Warder Castle
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byronhunt
Member
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posted 05-26-2003 09:02 AM
  
I am researching family history and have been told that there is/was a Warder Castle either in England/UK or Wales. Can anyone confirm this? Appreciate all assistance. |
Peter
Member
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posted 05-26-2003 03:17 PM
A quick look at a general listing, does not list a 'Warder Castle'.
Will look at other lists.
Any more info on your family name ?
Don't forget .. if it is a 'modern' castle, say, from the 17thC onwards. It would not come under any of our medieval lists. |
byronhunt
Member
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posted 05-26-2003 07:02 PM
I have very little info from family. I have the name William Joseph Warder immigrated to the USA from either Wales (UK) or England and was associated with "Warder Castle". My guess would be he came to USA maybe in late 1700's to early (even mid) 1800's. William Warder had married an Elizabeth Utley, but I have no info on her. My curiosity is just confirming where did William Warder immigrate from. |
byronhunt
Member
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posted 05-26-2003 07:05 PM
P.S. Also have curiosity about having a ancestor of any nobility that was associated with this named castle. |
Levan
Moderator
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posted 05-27-2003 01:59 PM
Are you sure about the spelling? In the 1700s spelling of names was more phoenetic. There is a Wardour Castle in Wiltshire:
http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/castles/old%20wardour%20castle.htm Clutching at straws, maybe? One of the biggest problems you will find is that castles in the UK rarely carry the name of their owner/builder. Castles often have names based on their geographical location. Before surnames became widespread, people often had geographically based names too (so you could distinguish John who lived in Huntington, from the one who lived in Loxley). Another way of distinguishing names was to use their trade (John the smith, John the cartwright, etc.). Warder is such a 'trade' name. Literally, a warder was someone who carried a batton or ruler either as a symbol of delegated authority or to practically measure the workmanship of craftsmen or goods of suppliers. Hence a warden was often the senior person responsible for works carried out in a castle (in Scotland the term used was Steward - where the Stewarts/Stuarts get their name). Levan
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Peter
Member
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posted 05-27-2003 03:54 PM
The U.K. spread of the name 'Warder' would suggest that it is an English name. References to the name in Wales, Scotland and Ireland are very limited. Though there is the strange mention of the name just once in Scotland in the late 16thC. All other mentions for all those countries are mainly the early 19thC.
Early references in England are nearly all in the south. With the Isle of Wight a main one, then coastal regions. Strangely enough, like my own surname !
It is difficult tracing any name back after the 18thC. One of the main problems being a marriage name change.
This is were a man changes his name to suit his new wife. And hence have a title with estates etc.
So John Smith may marry the young Lady Jane Grey. So he would then become Sir John Grey. This means that when people trace their line back to Norman England, it, in all honesty, is a load of rubbish.
In your case the further back you can go with firm facts, may lead you to the area of England that your line comes from.
Will look at another data base on America and let you know what comes up, if anything. |
duncan
Senior Member
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posted 05-28-2003 08:12 AM
I beg to differ about the load of rubbish.
The tracing of ones name can be long, tedious, expensive, and frustrating but entirely possible if some one knows how to go about the task.
------------------
Megan and Ralph at
Castle Duncan,
Castles and Medieval Discussion Forums May those who love us love us
And those who don't love us
May God turn their hearts,
And if He doesn't turn their hearts,
May He turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.
--- Irish Proverb
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byronhunt
Member
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posted 05-28-2003 09:31 AM
Peter & Levan, thank you for all your information. As a novice researcher of my family history, any information I get is considered valuable. I really appreciate your input. |
Peter
Member
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posted 05-28-2003 03:47 PM
Hm !
For any one to trace a 'firm' line that far back would have to be very lucky. It is not just time & money.
So I still say in the majority of cases it is impossible to go that far back, sorry. But good luck to those that make through a maze of years
Re; Warder ...as I don't know the part of America you come from ?
Early sources give only 21 with the name Warder, but 152 with the name Warden. The difference one letter makes !
In order I did find these;
Thomas (Quebec) 1784
Jeremiah 1802
John Head 1805
J.R. 1822
R.A. 1852All from England. You should have a very good chance with your dates though. The late 17thC; or early 19thC shouldn't be too bad.
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byronhunt
Member
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posted 05-28-2003 06:24 PM
Thank you again Peter! I'm from TN and some of my ancestral tracking indicates TN, KY, & WV as states that my family history traces to. |
duncan
Senior Member
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posted 05-29-2003 12:58 PM
"For any one to trace a 'firm' line that far back would have to be very lucky. It is not just time & money."Your right its not just time and money. Nor is it so much luck as it is know how and/or finding those that do know the paths.
Much of a trace revolves around data bases of all types with a lot of leg work in suspected areas of tenancy.
Sorry Peter but I've had some recent experience at this having been involved in just such a search of my own relatives including the finding of my mother and father. For an excellent start to a serious ancestry search try this site first,
http://www.ancestry.com/ ------------------
Megan and Ralph at
Castle Duncan,
Castles and Medieval Discussion Forums May those who love us love us
And those who don't love us
May God turn their hearts,
And if He doesn't turn their hearts,
May He turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.
--- Irish Proverb [This message has been edited by duncan (edited 05-31-2003).] |
Peter
Member
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posted 06-01-2003 11:15 AM
Why argue about the same side of the coin ?
This is really in the wrong forum anyway.
Will move anything I find down to the correct one. |
byronhunt
Member
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posted 06-01-2003 03:42 PM
Peter, Please note that I have sent you an e-mail, and you can respond to me at my e-mail address from "aol". Thank You! |
duncan
Senior Member
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posted 06-01-2003 10:03 PM
good idea to move the topic, a moderator should post in the right forums any way.
We are on the same side of the coin now?!? |
byronhunt
Member
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posted 06-02-2003 09:14 AM
duncan, your info is no longer needed, thank you! |
duncan
Senior Member
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posted 06-02-2003 10:56 AM
Your welcome!!!!Just as a reminder to all members,
We are here to help voluntarily, we are not here under any ones beck and call nor are we to be dismissed if some one doesn't care for the info we provide.
Thats not the way this forums board works. |
Peter
Member
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posted 06-03-2003 03:27 PM
Ta Byron for the e-mail information.
Good to hear the weather in Florida is on par with North Wales ! |
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