Author
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Topic: moats and security
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atthetop Member
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posted 09-06-2001 01:18 PM
I could use help with several groups of questions. I am 50 and using castles and moats in my presentations to groups age 40-65. 1)What were typical characteristics of moats, e.g. width, depth, was anything in the water to add effectiveness? Were they striclty used for security or were there other uses? 2)Was there a room for treasure? Were castles ever attacked for their treasure? Would only large armies attack a castle or would small bands of robbers attack for the treasure or some other purpose? Was fear of an attack a source of fear or concern by the residents or was it too an unlikley or infrequent occurance for any but the security forces to be concerned? 3)Finaly, in addition to a moat and soldiers with armour and weapons, were there any other effective defensive measures employed against an attack? Oops! One more. Can anyone direct me to a link that has good downloadable pictures of a castle, moat and overlook view that includes surrounding terrain? Any help with any of these questions will be appreciated. Thanks. "At the top".
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Levan Moderator
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posted 09-06-2001 02:42 PM
Moats come in all shapes and sizes. Many were used for keeping fish and fowl (mind you, as the effluent from the castle usually found its way into the moat, such wildlife must have been fairly hardy!).One of the key purposes of putting water in a moat was to cause greater problems for sappers in undermining the castle walls (they'd risk drowning). I afraid the idea of crocodiles or such like in moats is something of a myth, although it was not uncommon for sharpened sticks (bungy sticks) to be placed in the moat. Some castles, such as Leven and Caerfilly were built on islands on the middle of lakes (sometimes artificial). Not all moats have water in at all - dry moats were very effective as attackers needed to face downwards as they attacked the castle. There are diagrams of moats on the castles of Wales website: http://www.castlewales.com/caerphil.html http://www.castlewales.com/beaumar.html Also the Castles of Britain site is good: http://www.castles-of-britain.com/castleso.htm I've got pictures of Caelaverock Castle on my site - you can just make out the double moat on some of the pictures: http://fp.kirkburn.f9.co.uk/castlelevan/nearby/castles/caelaverock/caelaverock.htm Levan [This message has been edited by Levan (edited 09-06-2001).] |
Erik Schmidt Senior Member
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posted 09-07-2001 08:58 AM
1) As Levan said, not all moats were water filled and their dimensions varied a lot. I've seen dry moats only 15-20m wide and 2-4m deep, while there's a rock cut moat in Syria that is 30m deep. Rock cut moats tend to have vertical sides, while earthen moats have angled sides. Here are some previous threads about moats; http://www.castlesontheweb.com/quest/Forum9/HTML/000064.html http://www.castlesontheweb.com/quest/Forum12/HTML/000058.html http://www.castlesontheweb.com/quest/Forum12/HTML/000157.html 2) I'm sure castles may have been attacked for their treasure, although I don't recall an example. I have seen examples of 'treasure' chests, bascially the medieval verion of a safe, which contained wealth accumulated from taxes, levies, tithes and so on. To call it treasure is taking too much from fiction, just as we today don't call the contents of personal safes, safety deposit boxes and bank vaults "TREASURE". I'm sure the liquid assets of a castle were kept in a safe place, such as the keep or the documents/records room, but I haven't heard of a castle with a special room for it's storage. Sieges were conducted to take the castle for military purposes(gain new territory or strategic positions), could involve a great number of men assembled for the purposes of military campaign and could be quite expensive, so it's unlikely a castle would be sieged just for its wealth, although that was an added bonus. There are accounts of small groups of men taking a castle through surprize, trickery or inside help. The frequency of attack varied over time and could depend very much on the location and importance of a castle. Some castles were attacked many times while others never were. The fear felt by castle dwellers would follow reason. That is to say in times of peace they would likely not think about being attacked, whereas in times of great hostility they may indeed fear attack, particularly if the enemy is known or likely to rape, torture, pillage, murder and burn. Just take today's victims of war as examples. 3) Apart from the moat and soldiers there were other very effective means of defence, not least of which was the wall! I guess you knew that one! Read this previous thread about attacking castles; http://www.castlesontheweb.com/quest/Forum9/HTML/000280.html Each attacking method had a defensive countermeasure, so methods of defence are numerous. Steep hills, cliffs or water are pretty good defences also. That's about it. I can't think of any link to a pic of what you're after. Let us know if you get stuck on anything further. Erik |
atthetop Member
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posted 09-07-2001 04:53 PM
My thanks to Levan and Erik Schmidt for their answers to my moat and securtiy questions. You pretty much gave me what I wanted to know at this time. | |