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Author	Topic: defensive weapons
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-06-2005 04:25 PM I am aware that there were many different offensive weapons used against castle walls going from torsion, to counterwieght, and finally to black powder cannon. I am curious however as to what weapons castle defenders used. Did they have their own artillery to hurl projectiles back at the enemy who was at a distance from the walls? A response would be greatly appreciated.
Peter Member	posted 05-07-2005 04:20 AM The same weapons were used for defensive as well. Though they may not reach the size of those used by attackers. In later years with cannons being more widely used, the tops of many towers were lowered and strengthened to take them. Or, extra forward works were built to protect them. In the first forum there is a mention of Warwick Castle. Such a work was built there too take cannon. Peter
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-07-2005 09:29 AM were there many earthwork castles or fortresses in Europe? I think that as cannon technology evolved it became more and more difficult to construct artillery proof fortifications. I know for certain that in the middle of the 19th century during the civil war whenever rifled cannons replaced the old smoothbores stone fortifications were no longer strong enough to resist the shells. When you think about it someone could have used earth before because not only was it an excellent shock absorber for all kinds of projectile weapons it was fireproof and could be constructed as a very defensible position. The only disadvantages that I could see were mining underneath the works and detonating explosives but I remember reading that this was just as much a problem with stone castles as it was with earthen ones.not to mention that it was easier to repair especially in environments that did not have a lot of stone nearby.
Peter Member	posted 05-10-2005 03:29 PM The straight answer is .. yes! The English Civil War saw the raising of many earthen siege works. And cities like Oxford surrounded by earth fortifications. This happened throughout Europe. Two main reasons being they were cheap, and they resisted cannon shot pretty well. One snag was that a mortar could throw a shell over the top of any of these to explode inside. Peter
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-10-2005 04:33 PM (Sigh) Yeah, Mortars were awful when you were in a fortified position. reminds me of Vicksburg Mississippi. I tell you though those yankees were ingenious! there was a certain officer( can't seem to remember his name right off.) who built some mortars out of tree trunks! he just put some iron bands around them for added strength and killed more of us in a few days by indirect fire than any smoothbore or big rifle on the field. I think that some europeans tried that too? I know that there are no stone castles in america(well almost none) but you got to hand it to us we fortified the south during the civil war like you wouldn't believe! We turned petersburg into a fortified city! the siege there lasted 10 MONTHS! the longest siege in the war between the states. They even blew a whole in the side with powder and we still resisted. turned out to be a defeat eventually. Still my point is we have some cool stuff here in the U.S. too it's just not quite as old.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-10-2005 07:31 PM Hi Bent one, you may not have any stone castles but you still have The Hunley. I'm moving to North Carolina soon and will be sure to visit the first submarine to sink an enemy ship, in this case, the Housatonic I believe. Regards Paul of Paul'scastle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-10-2005 07:55 PM Hey did you know that the union had a submarine too. It never sunk any ships or killed its crew but I remember hearing about it. My Great, Great, Great, Great Grandfather was with th 37th alabama regiment at vicksburg and when we went there 2 months ago they had raised a union gunship of the bottom most of the hull remained intact , preserved by the muddy bottom. 30 inch smooth bores! they had a catwalk going inside the vessel and we saw the riginal machinery and pistons. really cool! the mud had also miraculously preserved watches and coffee cups and all kinds of personal effects of the men who served aboard her. they had her blueprints for sale. I found out that the tree trunk mortar was made by a capt. Stewart R. Tresilien.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-11-2005 07:08 AM Yea, The intelligent whale, the Union also bought a sub from the French but it was lost at sea in 1862 I believe. I think it was callled The Alligator. Regards, Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/
Peter Member	posted 05-11-2005 03:08 PM They may not be castles in the States. But there sure are dozens of excellent fort's dating from the time of the Spaniards onwards. From Boston to New York, then over to the west coast. Would love to see some of them some day. Er! Have seen the one at Boston. Peter
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-11-2005 06:36 PM you're right it was the alligator. I just couldn't remember what it was called. I didn't know that they got it from france though. i forget the name of one stone fortress that was on an island, I think its McHenry, was where francis scott key wrote the star spangled banner. We did use islands a lot in the U.S. I think it was to protect harbors from naval attacks mostly. Do you remember fort sumner where the civil war officially started? It was a geometric fortress built on an artificial island. You know it's just too bad that castles became obsolete in warfare because in peacetime they were very beautiful structures. I guess we have the rifled cannon to thank for the closing of a chapter in fortification history.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-11-2005 10:10 PM I have found this site about Fort McHenry. By coincidence the fort is star shaped. http://www.nps.gov/fomc/home.htm Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/ [This message has been edited by Paul (edited 05-11-2005).]
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-11-2005 10:22 PM And notice that outside the brick inner area there are earthworks and bunkers for ammunition. I remembered that there was something good about that fort. Whenever the spanish got here I remember that they built a city somewhere. I think that it is in florida or something but it is like the oldest european city and fortress in North America. Saw it in a documentary. I can't remember its name though. It was definitly made of stone.(I think)
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-11-2005 10:48 PM I just went to see some pictures of Petersburg VA and I found some pictures that were taken whenever the battle took place the fortifications look like an endless maze of Gabions, earth filled baskets, instant forifications that could be stacked on top of each other but many baskets deep and filled with earth. I have so got to go see that place Vicksburg was just the beginning, Petersburg is like Vicksburg's big brother.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-12-2005 06:27 AM Would you be refering to Saint Augustine and the Castillo San Marcos? My mother-in-law lives in Florida. Paul.
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-12-2005 10:12 AM you're right that is what it is. Go and see a virtual tour at www.harcourtschool.com go to the learning center and then go to the search option and put in castillo de san marcos. It was the first castle in North America to be built with blocks of stone like the ones we are familiar with in europe. [This message has been edited by bent one (edited 05-12-2005).]
Paul unregistered	posted 05-12-2005 08:08 PM We are moving to the USA later this year and I will be building a website about as many forts as I can and Saint Augustine will be the first. I mostly wish to get into the interior of Fort Knox, split it fifty fifty? Regards Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-12-2005 09:00 PM you know that most forts after they had become absolete were either abandoned or turned into other buildings. i think that Fort Knox was changed as it got older because it protected stuff that is still important today and will likely be important into the future, gold. The fortress had to be improved so i don't know if it still has the old stone and masonry. I wonder if the earth that was moved way back then is still around you can go to vicksburg and see th old trenches so maybe if you found an aerial shot you might see some around fort knox. If you do get inside there just remember I need some money. :-)
Paul unregistered	posted 05-13-2005 09:54 AM A copy of Magna Carta was once held at Fort Knox. Possibly the one that is displayed along with the Constitution and Bill of Rights at the National Archives in Washington. Paul.
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-13-2005 10:30 AM that was during WWII I think. Whenever london was getting bombed all the time and they had to protect their national treasures. I remember that they took paintings and things like that and put them in bunkers or maybe they put them in the subway, or underground I think is what they call it? that's just what I think though I haven't heard about it for a while. How many stone fortifications do we have in the U.S. exactly? we know about the Castillo de San Marcos but is that all I believe someone mentioned a castle in Boston? could they tell us more about it? It was Mr Peter I think? what does it look like sir?
Paul unregistered	posted 05-13-2005 10:41 AM The only one I can find in Boston is the Park Plaza, built in the early 20th century. So it is a bit "new" to really be called a castle maybe. Looks good though. http://www.dupontcastle.com/castles/parkplaz.htm [This message has been edited by Paul (edited 05-13-2005).]
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-16-2005 07:47 PM has anyone heard of the fortifications that ceaser constructed in Britain on a plateau somewhere. I saw it on the history channel this morning. It was a very cool position it had several lines of defense. Abatis, stimuli, and ditches. very awesome if anyone wants to see it. they have reconstructed a section of the fortifications in Britain.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-16-2005 08:35 PM I'm not too sure what was built during Caesars time in Britain in c55BC but Emperor Claudius AD43 erected a fort at Porchester and built the city at Colchester etc. I'll take a look and see what I can find. Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-16-2005 09:02 PM I am sorta sure that it was built by octavian a.k.a. Ceaser Augustus. He needed a war to get some extra cash to pay for his political campaign. I know that it was built on a plateau that started with an A I think it was called "Atheria"but never trust my faulty memory.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-17-2005 08:13 AM Any idea which country it was in?
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-17-2005 09:44 AM It was in Britain. I'll go and look for some pictures to show you. I see you're a senior member now, congratulations! : - )
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-17-2005 11:47 AM I found a site that has several roman forts. www.roman-britain.org I couldn't find the particular fort though. I am beginning to think that it was Julius ceaser. I did read something about a.d. 44 and cladius but I couldn't find what i was looking for. Have you seen hadrians wall? it's a very nice fortification. [This message has been edited by bent one (edited 05-17-2005).]
Peter Member	posted 05-17-2005 04:07 PM Mr. Peter! Ta o 'bent One'. The fort is in Boston Bay. And once again can be seen when coming into land at the airport. There are even more fortifications slightly further north at Salem. I do get magazines for review from C.A.M.P. (Council for America's Military Past). I often wonder why American's miss out much of their own history ? My wife and I have only visited the States twice, New England & Florida, but have always found something of military interest. Peter
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-17-2005 05:16 PM I'm not sure why so many of us take our history for granted. some people just don't care or they feel that our ancestors were evil or wrong. for example I live in texas and I take a lot of pride in my confederate ancestors. however because of this people consider me a supporter of slavery and an uneducated hillbilly. Did you know that down here people think the confederate flag is a sign of slavery and racism. Killers with crosses and murderers in white robes marred the message of my forefathers. they didn't fight for slaves, very few even owned any, they fought for freedom against the federal government. ever read the declaration of independence? what we were fighting for was the same as that of our founding fathers. we wanted to run our own individual governments. the winners write history though and we were told we were wrong because we fought for what we believed in. Everyone thinks the war was about slavery and Lincoln was the savior of slaves in the south. Lincolns whole goal was to preserve the union with or without slavery. Nowadays talking about the confederacy is viewed as not being politically correct. I think that's sad people look back on there predecessors as cruel and evil people. they weren't like that though, of course there were some, like there are some people like that today, the men and women of the past were no different than us they were not unintelligent they just did not have the technology that we have now. whenever I read about history I try to think of myself as one of them this makes history a whole lot more relevant to me. Then there are people that just do not like to read or they dislike history because they are forced to learn it in school and it is just meaningless dates and event. I know this is an old idea but if you don't learn your history you're doomed to repeat it. I wish everybody appreciated history.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-17-2005 07:23 PM Well said sir!
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-17-2005 09:41 PM thanks paul. I'm sorry that last post was so long I just get started about the civil war and I like to keep going. Anyway did you check out that roman british website that I gave? I couldn't find what I was looking for there. There's a large amount of stuff to sort through. I wish that they had a search option in there.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-18-2005 07:13 AM Yea, I had a good look at http://www.roman-britain.org/ and like you, found nothing. I guess you'll just have to watch the show on the History Channel again? Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-18-2005 09:32 AM I'd bet that they would show it again sometime or the other. I'll go to the website and see if and when it will show again. Have you read the rise and fall of the roman empire by Gibbons, I think, they talk about how the army of rome was organized it talks about their weapons and armor it also is a detailed history. I haven't read them all there are a few volumes but I read a little and it had a lot of good information in there. If you want to see how romans trained you shoud go an search for de re militari it was a text written about roman disciline, it was meant to persuade people to return rome to it's former glory. there's a place where I read it on the internet. It's in my favorites list somewhere I'll get it.
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-18-2005 09:46 AM the website for De Re Militari is: www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/other/vegetius.htm It talks about how they built there fortified encampments. I wouldn't mind building some roman entrenchments. : - )
Paul unregistered	posted 05-18-2005 07:10 PM I must admit that I have not read too much about the Romans as the period of greatest interest to me is 1000-1500ad. My loss I guess. Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-18-2005 10:27 PM well the romans had some pretty cool stuff. I think that i read on your website that the tower of london was based on an old roman fortification. I wish I could learn how to use a sling.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-19-2005 07:27 AM Hi, The Tower of London was built using the Roman walls, much of which still remained in the 11th century. William the conqueror did much the same thing wherever he erected his early defences. Building in this way saved time. Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-19-2005 10:48 AM My parents went to london on their honeymoon and they said that they would take me before i go to college. when I go will I be able to see the original roman stone or has the tower been modified so many times that it's not their anymore?
Paul unregistered	posted 05-19-2005 07:37 PM Yup, if you look close enough you can still see sections of the Roman wall. Just outside the tube station believe it or not. The original fortifications were built by Claudius and parts of the old Roman wall are difficult to find but if you ask one of the many Yeoman warders they will point you in the right direction. I will have a look at my books and let you know if I find any exact places to search for the best Roman relics. Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/
bent one Senior Member	posted 05-19-2005 08:27 PM have you seen a show called time team? they dig up all kinds of cool stuff from the roman period. it's really cool. once they smelted iron like the romans did there ages ago. there are a lot of old roman structures in britain.
Paul unregistered	posted 05-19-2005 08:36 PM Yea it's a good show. I think that i've seen them all now! I was watching a re-run today. It started in the late eighties over here and has been running since. Have you seen "Castle" written and presented by Marc Morris yet? I bought his book a couple of years ago and it is worth reading. If you come to England I will give you a guided tour of Rochester castle. In the mean time, take a look at this. http://www.open-sandwich.co.uk/richborough.htm Paul of Paul's castle. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/castles/ [This message has been edited by Paul (edited 05-19-2005).]

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