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Author	Topic: Romans
wurdsmiff unregistered	posted 01-30-2001 01:28 PM We Scots take great pride in the fact that no one has ever managed to conquer our country and hold it for any length of time. I thought this amusing little story might explain why; The Roman 7th legion marches north from Hadrian's wall hoping to conquer the wild north. Through cold desolate mountains they march, until at last they come to a pleasant green valley, with a sparkling river running through the middle, round a large hill. 'An ideal place for a fort', says the General, 'Sergeant,go forth with one man , and rout any natives'. The Sergeant goes forth and disappears over the brow of the hill, the clatter of arms is heard, then silence. The Sergeant and his man don't return. A little later, a wee blue hairy man appears on top of the hill, all red hair, runny nose and lacerated knees (in scots- rid heeded, skint knees and snottirs!) 'Come ahead ya dugs!' shouts the wee Scot ( in English this means would you like to fight me mister!) The General sits on his horse and says, 'Such a barbarian has defeated two of my best trained men, I cannot thole such embarrasment- Legionaire, take one hundred men and bring him to me alive that I might learn the quality of the enemy' So the Legionaire rides over the hill with his hundred men, the clash of arms is heard. Again the little man appears on top of the hill and shouts, 'comoan ya roamin eegit, is that yir best!' ( come on you roman idiot, is that the best you can do?) So the General tells his second in command, to take all ten thousand men and bring him the head of the impertinant little Pict. The legion marches over the hill, the clash of arms again, and the general sits alone awaiting the decapitated Scot. Suddenly his army comes running back to him. Stopping a foot soldier as he flew by, the General asked, 'Soldier from what do you run? Of what is the Army of Rome so afraid' Stammering the soldier replied, 'Sire you know not what you ask- there were two of them!' ------------------ Demeure par la verite Visit my web-site at www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm Gordon.
fafwolf Senior Member	posted 01-30-2001 05:09 PM hehehe, funny. too bad william Wallace couldn't really do that. I wonder how the movie "Braveheart" would have turned out.... bye the way, Fox Atreides, if you read this could you tell me where you get your signature quotes from? They're a riot. (note, for all you non-americans I, being a selfcentered american who belives like many americans, including our current president, that there are no other countries in the world [with the minor exception of that big once whatsitsname up north] will not bother to tell you that "its a riot" means that it is funny.) ------------------ "Those who refuse to serve the Powers, become the tools of the Powers. Those who agree to serve the Powers, Themselves become the Powers. Beware the Choice! Beware refusing it!" -Book of Night with Moon Tetrastych XVI: "Fire Over Heaven"
Fox Atreides Senior Member	posted 01-31-2001 03:24 AM Well, those orc sayings all came up in my muddled mind. You don't want to know how. And, you can call me Fox. ------------------ Ahem, mornin humie scum. I is da boss and he is scraggit, the big green one over there. We is da orcs, we is green. Green is best. Most of you humies don't understand that until we bounced up and down on their 'eads for a bit.
Merlin Senior Member	posted 01-31-2001 08:52 AM You Scots sure don't suffer on a lack of self-confidence! But what would interest me (beeing not a bright light in scottish history): Have the romans ever realy tried to sack you? Has there ever been a major battle like in Germany, where the loss of 6 Legions in one day stopped the empire of growing further? And if there was - why weren't the Romans succesful? Or have they simply been afraid of meeting any monsters around Loch Ness?
wurdsmiff unregistered	posted 01-31-2001 10:52 AM The legendary battle of Mons Graupius occurred around 80 AD,when 'The Caledonians' were defeated somewhere in the north east of Scotland by the legions of Julius Agricola. Although the Romans managed to build a few roads and forts winding through the lowlands of the east coast, they did so without Agricola who was recalled to Rome. Without his leadership, his lines of forts were by passed by raiding heilantmen (highlanders) and the remaining Romans withdrew to the safety of the south. They invaded again 40 years later, building Hadrians wall across the waist of North Britain, though even this failed to prevent raids and warring across the wall from the North. after a further 20 years they headed north again, conquering the southern part of the country, and constructing a turf wall across the narrowing of the Forth-Clyde valleys, with the usual arrangement of mile forts. Strangely enough this wall also failed to prevent the Caledonians from raiding into Roman territory. Eventually the great Empire over-stretched itself, and Caledonia determined as a lost cause. The garrisons were recalled from their most remote frontier to concentrate on preserving what they could of their territory. The Caledonians continued to behave as they always had, irrespective of the Roman prescence or absence. ------------------ Demeure par la verite Visit my web-site at www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm Gordon.
Fox Atreides Senior Member	posted 01-31-2001 11:39 AM O my gosh! My signature sure takes a lot of space! Let's change that. B.T.W., Like the thing about the loch ness monster....... ------------------ Ahem, mornin humie scum. I is da boss and he is Scraggit, the big green one over there. We is da orcs, we is green. Green is best. Most of you humies don't understand that until we bounced up and down on their 'eads for a bit.
Peter Member	posted 01-31-2001 12:41 PM Phew! I have heard some tall tales. Everyone knows that the Scot's are Welsh that were on holiday up n'rth when the Romans came & couldn't get home agin. And 'riot' comes from the north west, ie. Geordie land around Newcastle, Where a real riet on a saturday night after a few Newcies is 'real fun'.
wurdsmiff unregistered	posted 01-31-2001 01:02 PM This being the Solar, we had to get back to talking about beer I suppose. ------------------ Demeure par la verite Visit my web-site at www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm Gordon.
wurdsmiff unregistered	posted 01-31-2001 03:16 PM After Julius Caesars' invasion of 55Bc, the Romans gradually moved north. In 79 AD or thereabouts Julius Agricola, Roman Governor of Britain moved into that part of Britain now known as Scotland, building a line of forts at strategic positions as he advanced. The Caledonians with their major fortress of Alclyd on Dunbarton Rock resisted. Within two years, the Romans tried again, and later another attempt ended in the annihalation of the Ninth legion, probably somewhere in Galloway. About a year later, the Roman Tacitus records in 'The Life of Julius Agricola' the first Caledonian known by name, Calgacus- 'The Swordsman' Calgacus was leader of the Caledonian Army defeated at the battle of Mons Graupius by Agricola's army, at the cost of 10,000 Caledonians,including Calgacus to 340 Romans. The Romans found it impossible to consolidate their victory, withdrawing to the south. Under the Emperor Hadrian they built a wall of turf and stone which took his name,Hadrians Wall. Invading the North again,in 139 AD, the Romans under Lollicus Ubricus gained a hold in the southern part of the country, and built another turf wall on stone founds across the waist of Scotland. This was given the name of the Emperor Antoninus and it roughly followed the line of forts constructed by Agricola. The Caledonians managed to force the Romans to withdraw to Hadrian's Wall. It is recorded that the Emperor Severus came in a final attempt to subdue the north, and that having advanced possibly as far as the Moray Firth,certainly as far as Montrose, he was forced to withdraw having lost 50,000 men through relentless harrying. He may have reinforced Hadrian's Wall to protect the Romanised south. Eventually the Romans withdrew from Britain altogether, and the Picts remained, gaining large lands to the south. The Scots invaded the coast of Argyll from their home in Ireland, establishing the capital of their Kingdom of Dalriada at Dunadd, and bringing with them the 'Lia Fail', or Stone of Destiny. Eventually the two nations became one under a joint king, Kenneth McAlpine. Later Strathclyde (aka Cumbria), the Kingdom of the Britons which territory stretched almost as far as Morecambe Bay, was also amalgamated under Duncan, Prince of Strathclyde, grandson and heir of Malcolm of Scotland. An abbreviated history, but illustrative. All Welshmen are welcome, those who immigrated in the early medieval days were allegedly given the name Welsh, or Wallays, eventually corrupted to Wallace, a name forever associated with Scotland. Phew, A tall tale? ------------------ Demeure par la verite Visit my web-site at www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm Gordon. [This message has been edited by wurdsmiff (edited 01-31-2001).]
Philip Davis unregistered	posted 01-31-2001 04:55 PM Welsh is an anglo-saxon term for any none anglo-saxon and therefore applies equally to the Cornish, the people of Wales and the Scots (also to pockets of Britons in England as in such places as Walsall - welshman's valley and Walton - welsh village). Further it can be said that whilst the Pict's may have resisted the Romans (or the Romans considered the expenditure to invade Caledonia not worth any effort) they did not resist the invasion of the Irish Scots, the germanic anglo-saxons, or the Nordic Vikings. Gaelic is now only spoken in those areas no one considered worth the effort to invade. Most Scots are anglo-saxons and the language Scots, whilst distinctly different from English, is an anglo-saxon language. Even more than the English the people of Scotland are not one but many different people of varied origin. Finally the film Braveheart makes it clear that William Wallace was an Australian
Merlin Senior Member	posted 02-01-2001 02:14 AM Thanks, that's more information than I expected. Think I'm up to date now.
wurdsmiff unregistered	posted 02-01-2001 03:55 AM I agree that the modern Scot is of multi cultural origins. Which nationality isn't? Gaelic does survive in those less accessible parts of the country, though modern roads have made this less of a consideration for the tourist. I also agree that on the source of the Welsh name, however my reference is one alleged source of the Wallace surname and refers to immigrants from Wales, though I have also seen Philips alternate explanation given to claim that the family was of Celtic origin as opposed to Norman. However it is more often viewed in similar source to the surname Inglis or Ingils, meaning English.
duncan Senior Member	posted 02-01-2001 08:05 AM When we were there My wife and i found the use of Gaelic to be wide spread in Ireland, Scotland, and Wales. As the Irish and Scotish being the closer of the three we had less problems with understanding in those countrys then in Wales. The road signs were not always in English either which made things even more interesting. We are not the nomal tourist typs and got off the beaten path at every chance. No matter where it is spoken it is still wonderful to hear.
Philip Davis unregistered	posted 02-01-2001 10:32 AM Aye were all a mixed breed. One little considered point is that some of the britons driven out of Britannia by the anglo-saxons crossed over to Amorica and colonised to such an extent that the area became Brittany (or Lesser Britain as opposed to Great Britain). Of course, in due time, some of these Bretons returned as part of William the Conquer's forces and ended up being lords to the descendants of the very people who had evicted their descendants. (The other existing celtic language, not mentioned by Duncan, is Breton although I believe some are trying to revive Cornish). I wonder if any Breton baron ended up talking welsh with some Cornishmen? Last week on TV the excavation of a late Roman Christian burial in Bath (in South West England) was show. DNA analysis of the man buried showed that he had some Syrian ancestors. Historic evidence had suggested that Syrians had settled in Britannia but this seems to be the first archeological evidence to support that. The evidence for the vast mixing of peoples from quite early times really makes a mockery of any idea of an genetic based 'National Character', but I must admit to being an antinationalist (more an anarcho-syndicalist) so perhaps the nationalist can find a counter argument.
wurdsmiff unregistered	posted 02-01-2001 01:54 PM No nationalist here, on the contrary I find some of the policies of each of the political parties a little worrying, particularily when I have to work for them when they come into power!!! It is worth remembering that the Roman Army was drawn from recruits from all parts of their Empire, and that no doubt wherever they went some 'active interaction' took place with friendly locals. The Celts themselves were initially a travelling people, having began their journey across Europe from somewhere around The Balkans, moving through Spain and eventually to the British Isles. One story which reflects that long journey is the story of the Lia Fail(Stone of Destiny) and the Scots themselves. The legendary stone is reputed to have been Jacobs Pillow, mentioned in Genesis 28. It allegedly travelled to Ireland with with one Princes Tea, alleged daughter of a Pharoh. The Hill of Tara is reputed to take its name from her.It is beleived the Irish gave her the name Scota, and the people took their name from her. Early descriptions of the stone indicate that it was of a black glassy type stone, possibly shaped from a very large meteorite or thunderstone. It is also said to have been elaborately decorated with carvings. Another legend, or the same one reputes that it was used as the portable altar of St Columba, himself of Irish Royal blood, although a man of the church. He is reputed to have carried it around Scotland as he converted the Picts. So a travelling people finally settled down in the Isles of Britain, having mixed blood with the rest of the Mediterranean and European world. A legend indeed, or purely the work of a very clever cleric who wished to establish Scotlands credentials as an independant nation with a Pope who had already received contrary submissions from hostile English clerics- who on behalf of their Kings thought Scotland worthwhile subjegating. Baldred Bisset's claims in the Declaration of Arbroath are in some ways supported by the early Irish chronicles. But not by the English Kings, who became the proud owners of what may have been an ordinary lump of Scone sandstone. I suppose we'll never know the real facts behind all this medieval propaganda, but it all adds to the legend. ------------------ Demeure par la verite Visit my web-site at www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm Gordon. [This message has been edited by wurdsmiff (edited 02-01-2001).]
Peter Member	posted 02-01-2001 03:06 PM Sut ryddychyn heddiw fy bloddwyn bach Nos Da
AJR Senior Member	posted 02-02-2001 03:29 AM Eh ? What ?
Philip Davis unregistered	posted 02-03-2001 07:28 AM It seems to be something about today's liberals shouting about my smalls?!? Though I suspect Peter may have honey in his thumbs as to my translation.
duncan Senior Member	posted 02-03-2001 08:49 AM I know nothing of your "smalls" Philip and i lay no claim to knowing Welsh. But some of that is Celtic and seems to be a quote from a very very old Book. Peter your turn.
Peter Member	posted 02-03-2001 11:21 AM I must have typed that after one of those Newcie's ! Just take it as; How are you today My little flower Nos da or Noswaith dda .. Good night I wouldn't suggest the middle one to a Welsh rugby player, more so seeing they just got clattered by England.
Philip Davis unregistered	posted 02-03-2001 12:46 PM Oh Blodwyn not bloddwyn dat dd got me dere thear Peter. Wel, hwyl yn awr or as they say round my way tarabit
Peter Member	posted 02-04-2001 02:22 AM That double 'dd' is a bone of contention between the north & south I think, mid Wales is something else again. My grandaughter must learn Welsh up to junior school level. When she goes to the BIG school later this year it is her choice (and parents)whether to carry on with it. In all honesty I stopped using the language years ago, and remember very little. My struggle is now with Italian. Where I live was a centre for many POW camps of Italian nature. Buon Giorno in our town rather than Bore Da would be more the norm (Good morning).
Philip Davis unregistered	posted 02-04-2001 04:07 AM I must admit my welsh never got beyond trying order a pint of beer in Merionthshire on a Sunday. I hadn't realised there was quite such a variation in the welsh dialects. Clearly my dictionary is using only one.
fafwolf Senior Member	posted 02-05-2001 01:24 PM Oh why dont yoiu jst go and create a historical/modern beer forum?! good grief. Since I am currently casting around for some form of an excuse not to do my homework: whats the weather like accross the pond? 4-8 inches of snow for me today in Massachusetts. PS to backtrack a little, Fox, where exactly do these "orc quotes" come from? I know a few people who've played "warcraft II" a bit to much and start jabbering gibberish orc, but these ones are new... ------------------ "Those who refuse to serve the Powers, become the tools of the Powers. Those who agree to serve the Powers, Themselves become the Powers. Beware the Choice! Beware refusing it!" -Book of Night with Moon Tetrastych XVI: "Fire Over Heaven"