Castle Quest - Reply to Topic

Forum:	Individual Castles
Topic:	Hoddenton, Chirbury, Shorpshire

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T O P I C R E V I E W
Philip Davis In Norman England by Trevor Rowley there appears an aerial photograph of 'the cropmark of a ploughed out motte and bailey at Hoddenton, Chirbury, close to the Welsh border in Shropshire' with a source acknowledgement of [Musson](actually it looks like a ringwork and bailey to me). There appears to be no other detail as to this site or the source in the, otherwise interesting, book. The ploughed out site certainly does not fit the description of Chirbury castle mound given by Michael Jackson in Castles of Shropshire and located at SO 258985.
Does anyone know anything about this site, in particular it's exact location?
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And the astronomyours beheldyne the constellacions of hys bryth by thare castle, and foundyn that he sholde bene wyse and curteyse, good of consaill
Secreta Secretorum
Visit Castellarium Philippis
wurdsmiff I'm afraid I don't know the area at all, but the following link may provide some data in the future on a variety of sites in Shropshire. The site appears still to be under construction and unfortunately the limks do not function . However there is some data on the early ownership in the form of a table.
There are two listed at Chirbury, Chirbury itself, and one called Middleton(Chirbury). There is also Hodnet which sounds hopeful to me, though as a foreigner down south, I can't say how hopeful that is.
Hope this is useful, though you've probably seen this site. http://www.infokey.com/Domesday/Shropshire.htm

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Demeure par la verite
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Gordon.

[This message has been edited by wurdsmiff (edited 01-23-2001).]
Philip Davis The thing about this site is that it is ploughed flat and exists just as a cropmark (unusual, since mottes normally survive) As such it doesn't fit the description of any castle I know of in the area, including Middleton or Hodnot (which is actually a way away). This is, of course, why I want to track it down. Perhaps the reference to Musson rings a bell with someone. If anyone could give me a full reference for where this photo may have originated I'll try that.
Interesting website though wurdsmiff, I wonder if they plan to do the whole of the Domesday survey?
wurdsmiff it would certainly be a worthwhile site if they did, and I'm sure many of the members would find it invaluable, as some may at the moment simply with lists of properties. What they seem to be planning is a link for each, and hopefully that could provide details on how each property was developed, and did it carry a seat of the lord. An exciting prospect to have such material readily available.
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Demeure par la verite
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Gordon.

Peter Chris Musson, I think started with the old Clwyd Archl. Services, doing these aerial pictures. Then I'm fairly sure he went to South Wales doing full time.
So many of the aerial pictures of Wales and the Borders are now from Chris.
Deserted Settlements in Shropshire (1987), gives two at Chirbury;
Little Weston .. Moated manor site of the Deans of Bridgenorth.
Moat Farn .. Slight remains.
Most likely something different, but it could cross two off a list.
Philip Davis Thanks for that info Peter. I can see I've a got to spend a lot of time in a library to track this down.
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And the astronomyours beheldyne the constellacions of hys bryth by thare castle, and foundyn that he sholde bene wyse and curteyse, good of consaill
Secreta Secretorum
Visit Castellarium Philippis
A Knight I think the structure shown in the photograph is the same as that in Timber Castle p.208 - called Acton Bank. This was rejected in both Castellarium Anglicanum and Castles of Shropshire as a barrow (Map Ref. SO 315857). The photo in Timber Castles is from the south, whilst in Norman England it is from the east - but the actual structure, field shape and adjoining lane appear the same. The site is further referred to in Hereford Archaological News - No.63 p.6 - this includes a sketch plan and is viewed to be a motte and bailey with possibly another small attached bailey.
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Andy Knight
Philip Davis Thanks Andy. That sounds very promising. Despite being one of the most comprehensive and considered authors Cathcart King can be very quirky at times (his naming and spelling of sites is deeply strange - noone else would call Bamburgh - Bamborough). Micheal Jackson may just be repeating King but I'll have to look at the article he references in Archaeological Cambrensis to be sure (that'll upset the librarians in the small market town I've recently moved to, they never had to look for anything beond the latest Catherine Cookson).
It difficult to be sure without sound ground measurements but it certainly doesn't look like a barrow to me. I'll scan the picture and send a copy to anyone interested if you email me.
A Knight Phillip
Can send you a scan of Acton Bank if you wish - I have a 500k jpeg - which I can reduce if necessary.
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Andy Knight
wurdsmiff Andy, I'd like a look at that too, provided it's not too much trouble. Thanks.
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Demeure par la verite
Visit my web-site at
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Gordon.

Elena HEY ALL OF YOU GUYS. HOW DO YOU BECOME A MODERATER?? THATS ALL. THANX A MILLION BYE
***************NIKKI**********************
Elena THANX YOU GUYS SOOOO MUCH. YOU REALLY HELPED ME WITH MY CASTLE. I GOT AN.............: RUM ROLL::.........A+!!!
AHHH! I AM SO HAPPY. THANX AGAIN SOOOO MUCH. AND FOR ALL YOU BEGINNERS. THIS MAN PHIL DAVIS, REALLY KNOWS WHATS BEST. A+ CAN U BELIEVE IT? THANX AGAIN. =) BYEZERS~4~ NOW.=)
***************NIKKI****************
wurdsmiff hardly the best place for your mail Elena/Nikki, however I'm sure Philip will be glad of the thanks. Congratulations on your excellent grade.
Oh, a little hint on web etiquette,

DON'T SHOUT!!! IT'S VERY RUDE.
[This message has been edited by wurdsmiff (edited 03-13-2001).]