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T O P I C R E V I E W
n_guillou I need info on How castles changed with the invention of gunpowder, i.e how their structure was changed, positions etc. help would be much appreciated! If at all possible i would like this to be concerned with british castles.
wurdsmiff Briefly, several features are common in Scottish catles which reflect the introduction of gunpowder.
Not many people in Scotland were able to afford the works involved for defense from and with cannon, and so the major changes are noted in some of the larger sites. At Tantallon, a series of great ditches were dug to keep cannon at such a distance to be out of range, with thickening of the great outer wall, in order that any damage done would have a less detrimental effect on the defense. In some the parapet and walls were widened in order that cannon could defend from the parapet, and the great batteries of guns at Stirling and Edinburgh, although of later date , reflect this.
Castles such as Craignethan and Cadzow were early examples of strong castles built for defense against and with artillery, again ditches keeping the artillery at a safe distance, whilst thick protective walls protected the interior. The massive wall at Craignethan was built to support it's own defensive batteries, though only foudations remain. Outside this, the deep and wide ditch was traversed by a roofed shelter (a caponier) from which musketeers could strafe the base of the ditch preventing infantry from crossing to the wall base.
The change to gunpwder is also reflected in the change from arrow loops to gunloops, ie the slots through which arrows could be fired were replaced by smaller graduated gaps through which a musket or handgun could be fired. In the tower houses most common in Scotland, it would have been impractical in the majority to defend against artillery, because of cost. The sheer numbers of tower houses which would have had to be invested by an invading army provided it's own security, though individually they were best defended against raiding parties, often from aggressive neighbours. Remember that artillery was a very slow moving section of an army in a time when roads were poor and the cannon being hauled over rough terrain by oxen or the like, and it was vulnerable whilst on the move.
The smaller houses defended themselves with gunloops and improved geometry, such as the development of L-plan, E-plan and T-plan houses, which meant that covering fire could be given from adjacent walls to protect the entrance. Improved domestic planning was another important reason for the development of these buildings.
------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm
Gordon.

Philip Davis The introduction of gunpowder is not a simple event. It took several hundred years for gunpowder technology to reach it's peak developement and initially gunpowder was very ineffective and had little effect on castle design. In many ways the castle, as a military residence, fell out of fashion in England before gunpowder had much effect at all on design. Those fortifications designed to defend against artillery which were built new were not meant to be baronial residences and, therefore, are, strictly speaking, not castles, although many are called castles.
However, I'll try and give a brief outline of some of the aspects of this very complex question.
The earliest changes to castle design where simple changes in the design of loopholes so that they could be used effectively by firearms. Basically loopholes for firearms are round circular holes and loops for bows are long slits. Many loops were designed for both guns and bows. The other feature occasional seen is a vent in the roof above a loop to allow the smoke from the firearm to escape (early black powder firearms produce massive amounts of thick smoke). When artillery became more effective some strategical important castles had additional defenses added. These were sometimes additional thick low banks of earth (which is good at stopping cannon balls) around the castle, such as at Carisbrooke castle on the Isle of Wight, or by pilling thick banks of earth up against the inside of the walls both to improve the walls resistance to cannon shot and to give a wider platform at the top of the wall for mounting defensive cannon. An example is Chepstow castle in Monmouthshire.
Some fortifications were built to mount cannon. These were almost always designed to defend ports and inlets against enemy ships. One of the earliest is Dartmouth castle which is a simple square building, with a few square gun ports at floor level (the simple early guns being mounted on a wooden sledge rather than a wheeled carriage). Henry VIII had built several forts which were basically round with half round platforms for the guns attached (Deal castle is, arguably, the best surviving example) but the fashion for round artillery forts was very short and was soon replaced by forts with pointed bastions on which the guns where mounted. The angled bastions protruded from the walls of the fort and provided covering fire to the walls, Yarmouth castle has a single bastion to cover the gate but still mounts the guns in a square fort. The town walls of Berwick on Tweed are the best example of early bastion works in England. I should repeat that these costal forts, although called castles, were not the residences of lords and are not true castles.
You can find floorplans of some the castles I've mentioned at my web site.
------------------
And as I rode by Dalton-Hall Beneath the turrets high, A maiden on the castle-wall Was singing merrily: The Outlaw by Sir Walter Scott
http://www.castlesontheweb.com/members/philipdavis/index.html

Levan
Threave Castle, Kircudbrightshire (pronounced kir-coo-bree-shur), Scotland, had an artillery battery added to it. This structure rose in places to around six meters; it had four towers and a gatehouse; unfortunately, little remains today.
In 1455 James II laid the new defences of Threave to siege (reputedly using Mons Meg – the famous cannon now stationed at Edinburgh Castle). Later, in 1640 Threave Castle also suffered from a massive thirteen-week artillery bombardment. Even after this catastrophic attack, the castle remained strong enough to act as a prison during the Napoleonic war.
Further information about Threave Castle:
http://www.aboutscotland.com/threave/castle.html
http://www.castles-of-britain.com/castle81.htm
http://www.ehabitat.demon.co.uk/scotland/threave.html
http://libby.withnall.com/castles/threave.htm
Levan
Merlin Although you asked especially for the situation in england, I also want to give a short overview for central europe:
Big and/or military important medieval castles that where still used in 15./16. century very often got an additional artillery battery to defend the entrance area (or the side that was most exposed to any attack). There are a lot of examples where the buildings of the 'old' castle are still intact today, but surrounded by such batteries, with huge round towers, thicker walls etc.
A good example for an additional round tower is Porrentruy:
http://www.swisscastles.ch/Jura/porrentruy.html
An even more typical example is the castle of Vaduz, famous residence of the family von Liechtenstein:
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/Phd/Benjamin.Watson/links/liechtenstein.html
You can find such castles all over France, Germany, Switzerland, etc.
Merlin
Levan Have found an excellent book that addresses the effect of technological developments upon the design and construction of castles; the effect of the widespread adoption of gunpowder is particularly well covered:
The Castle Story: Illustrated guide to the development of English castles by Sheila Sancha. ASIN: 0722655959
This book also gives an overview of effect of the changing political situation in England and Wales too.
Levan
Lioness The invention of gunpowder was one of the factors as to why the feudal system was distroyed. Just an interesting fact for all to see.
thedamned Well, the end of the feudal europe was because of gunpowder... I forgot who was the army... erm.. I think it was the Germans... hold on let me look in my history book. Here's the paragraph out from my book.
"Why did feudalism die in Europe? For one thing, growing towns offered alternatives to people who did not want to function within the feudal system. Also, military technology changed in 1300s. Large armies with new weapons - the longbow in the 1300s and guns in the 1400s - made mounted knights less effective in battle"
ryanmac I just got my username and i was just testing it out here. sorry for the inconvienience.
otherwise this is very good information for my school project, National History Day. I am making a website and need as much things in my bibliograhpy as i can. if anyone can offer any sourcews they quoted above, i woyuld greatly appreciate it!!
thankx
------------------
Levan Take a look at the "Book Nook" - there are lots of book listings.
A wee tip - if you're going to use the books in your bibliography, you really ought to have used them in your studies.
I guess another option is to list some of the books as 'books recommended by others' although please note that not all of the books listed in the Book Nook are being recommended - some just included in the listings because they exist - in some instances anything is better than nothing!
Levan
ryanmac Thankx again.
But i actuallycan use the book if have read or used a quote from them. Levan, what you said would usually be right, but i need 60 sources and am panicking and read the 30-page rulebook.
very much thankx.
Rocky1516 I agree with Ryan this has been very helpfull in my search for things that changed the course of history. Im writing a end of year history paper on that subject.
thanks
kitzy hi anybody here i neeed help
Merlin @kitzy:
What kind of help? Please post your questions and I'll try to help.

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T O P I C R E V I E W
n_guillou	I need info on How castles changed with the invention of gunpowder, i.e how their structure was changed, positions etc. help would be much appreciated! If at all possible i would like this to be concerned with british castles.
wurdsmiff	Briefly, several features are common in Scottish catles which reflect the introduction of gunpowder. Not many people in Scotland were able to afford the works involved for defense from and with cannon, and so the major changes are noted in some of the larger sites. At Tantallon, a series of great ditches were dug to keep cannon at such a distance to be out of range, with thickening of the great outer wall, in order that any damage done would have a less detrimental effect on the defense. In some the parapet and walls were widened in order that cannon could defend from the parapet, and the great batteries of guns at Stirling and Edinburgh, although of later date , reflect this. Castles such as Craignethan and Cadzow were early examples of strong castles built for defense against and with artillery, again ditches keeping the artillery at a safe distance, whilst thick protective walls protected the interior. The massive wall at Craignethan was built to support it's own defensive batteries, though only foudations remain. Outside this, the deep and wide ditch was traversed by a roofed shelter (a caponier) from which musketeers could strafe the base of the ditch preventing infantry from crossing to the wall base. The change to gunpwder is also reflected in the change from arrow loops to gunloops, ie the slots through which arrows could be fired were replaced by smaller graduated gaps through which a musket or handgun could be fired. In the tower houses most common in Scotland, it would have been impractical in the majority to defend against artillery, because of cost. The sheer numbers of tower houses which would have had to be invested by an invading army provided it's own security, though individually they were best defended against raiding parties, often from aggressive neighbours. Remember that artillery was a very slow moving section of an army in a time when roads were poor and the cannon being hauled over rough terrain by oxen or the like, and it was vulnerable whilst on the move. The smaller houses defended themselves with gunloops and improved geometry, such as the development of L-plan, E-plan and T-plan houses, which meant that covering fire could be given from adjacent walls to protect the entrance. Improved domestic planning was another important reason for the development of these buildings. ------------------ 'Give me the groves that lofty brave, The storms, by Castle Gordon'. Visit my web-site at www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm Gordon.
Philip Davis	The introduction of gunpowder is not a simple event. It took several hundred years for gunpowder technology to reach it's peak developement and initially gunpowder was very ineffective and had little effect on castle design. In many ways the castle, as a military residence, fell out of fashion in England before gunpowder had much effect at all on design. Those fortifications designed to defend against artillery which were built new were not meant to be baronial residences and, therefore, are, strictly speaking, not castles, although many are called castles. However, I'll try and give a brief outline of some of the aspects of this very complex question. The earliest changes to castle design where simple changes in the design of loopholes so that they could be used effectively by firearms. Basically loopholes for firearms are round circular holes and loops for bows are long slits. Many loops were designed for both guns and bows. The other feature occasional seen is a vent in the roof above a loop to allow the smoke from the firearm to escape (early black powder firearms produce massive amounts of thick smoke). When artillery became more effective some strategical important castles had additional defenses added. These were sometimes additional thick low banks of earth (which is good at stopping cannon balls) around the castle, such as at Carisbrooke castle on the Isle of Wight, or by pilling thick banks of earth up against the inside of the walls both to improve the walls resistance to cannon shot and to give a wider platform at the top of the wall for mounting defensive cannon. An example is Chepstow castle in Monmouthshire. Some fortifications were built to mount cannon. These were almost always designed to defend ports and inlets against enemy ships. One of the earliest is Dartmouth castle which is a simple square building, with a few square gun ports at floor level (the simple early guns being mounted on a wooden sledge rather than a wheeled carriage). Henry VIII had built several forts which were basically round with half round platforms for the guns attached (Deal castle is, arguably, the best surviving example) but the fashion for round artillery forts was very short and was soon replaced by forts with pointed bastions on which the guns where mounted. The angled bastions protruded from the walls of the fort and provided covering fire to the walls, Yarmouth castle has a single bastion to cover the gate but still mounts the guns in a square fort. The town walls of Berwick on Tweed are the best example of early bastion works in England. I should repeat that these costal forts, although called castles, were not the residences of lords and are not true castles. You can find floorplans of some the castles I've mentioned at my web site. ------------------ And as I rode by Dalton-Hall Beneath the turrets high, A maiden on the castle-wall Was singing merrily: The Outlaw by Sir Walter Scott http://www.castlesontheweb.com/members/philipdavis/index.html
Levan	Threave Castle, Kircudbrightshire (pronounced kir-coo-bree-shur), Scotland, had an artillery battery added to it. This structure rose in places to around six meters; it had four towers and a gatehouse; unfortunately, little remains today. In 1455 James II laid the new defences of Threave to siege (reputedly using Mons Meg – the famous cannon now stationed at Edinburgh Castle). Later, in 1640 Threave Castle also suffered from a massive thirteen-week artillery bombardment. Even after this catastrophic attack, the castle remained strong enough to act as a prison during the Napoleonic war. Further information about Threave Castle: http://www.aboutscotland.com/threave/castle.html http://www.castles-of-britain.com/castle81.htm http://www.ehabitat.demon.co.uk/scotland/threave.html http://libby.withnall.com/castles/threave.htm Levan
Merlin	Although you asked especially for the situation in england, I also want to give a short overview for central europe: Big and/or military important medieval castles that where still used in 15./16. century very often got an additional artillery battery to defend the entrance area (or the side that was most exposed to any attack). There are a lot of examples where the buildings of the 'old' castle are still intact today, but surrounded by such batteries, with huge round towers, thicker walls etc. A good example for an additional round tower is Porrentruy: http://www.swisscastles.ch/Jura/porrentruy.html An even more typical example is the castle of Vaduz, famous residence of the family von Liechtenstein: http://www.cc.gatech.edu/gvu/people/Phd/Benjamin.Watson/links/liechtenstein.html You can find such castles all over France, Germany, Switzerland, etc. Merlin
Levan	Have found an excellent book that addresses the effect of technological developments upon the design and construction of castles; the effect of the widespread adoption of gunpowder is particularly well covered: The Castle Story: Illustrated guide to the development of English castles by Sheila Sancha. ASIN: 0722655959 This book also gives an overview of effect of the changing political situation in England and Wales too. Levan
Lioness	The invention of gunpowder was one of the factors as to why the feudal system was distroyed. Just an interesting fact for all to see.
thedamned	Well, the end of the feudal europe was because of gunpowder... I forgot who was the army... erm.. I think it was the Germans... hold on let me look in my history book. Here's the paragraph out from my book. "Why did feudalism die in Europe? For one thing, growing towns offered alternatives to people who did not want to function within the feudal system. Also, military technology changed in 1300s. Large armies with new weapons - the longbow in the 1300s and guns in the 1400s - made mounted knights less effective in battle"
ryanmac	I just got my username and i was just testing it out here. sorry for the inconvienience. otherwise this is very good information for my school project, National History Day. I am making a website and need as much things in my bibliograhpy as i can. if anyone can offer any sourcews they quoted above, i woyuld greatly appreciate it!! thankx ------------------
Levan	Take a look at the "Book Nook" - there are lots of book listings. A wee tip - if you're going to use the books in your bibliography, you really ought to have used them in your studies. I guess another option is to list some of the books as 'books recommended by others' although please note that not all of the books listed in the Book Nook are being recommended - some just included in the listings because they exist - in some instances anything is better than nothing! Levan
ryanmac	Thankx again. But i actuallycan use the book if have read or used a quote from them. Levan, what you said would usually be right, but i need 60 sources and am panicking and read the 30-page rulebook. very much thankx.
Rocky1516	I agree with Ryan this has been very helpfull in my search for things that changed the course of history. Im writing a end of year history paper on that subject. thanks
kitzy	hi anybody here i neeed help
Merlin	@kitzy: What kind of help? Please post your questions and I'll try to help.