Author
|
Topic: magic...
|
Maria Moderator
|
posted 05-10-2005 11:20 AM
In the Orient (especially in China and Japan, I believe), there is this custom of building houses according to something like magic-rules (feng-shui?). I was wondering, are there simmilar examples in the western area? I've heard about alchemy and all that, did it have rules that applied to buildings(castles)? |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-10-2005 01:35 PM
Go to David Mclean's "The Alchemy Website" (I couldn't write out the URL because I used a search engine) Anyway they have got texts that go back as far as the 14th century, I'm sure, maybe they have some earlier. they have alchemic symbols and art and safety rules if you wish to experiment with alchemy yourself. they have lots of information regarding the science of alchemy. They also have a manual on making a plant stone which is kind of like a solid essence of plant oil not sure of the exact producedure but they have pictures of it. great stuff for makin incense or just having something on your desk that smells great. they also have some books on practical alchemy ou there I could look up the title and author if your interested. Not too sure if they built buildings according to alchemy, considering most of the west was christian there wasn't a whole lot of respect for alchemy a lot of people considered it witchcraft however I know that europe was really superstitous and had special things meant to keep evil away. If you want to look up something cool that was used in america on buildings to protect and stregthen buildings look up "Hex Signs" these were often quilted stars or geometric patterns. I don't think that alchemy was witchcraft(I am sure some of it was) but I prefer to call it the predecessor to our understanding of what is now chemistry. you wouldn't believe how close to us they really were. I hope this helps you to some degree [This message has been edited by bent one (edited 05-10-2005).] |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-10-2005 01:58 PM
here's that thing about hex signs."In parts of Pennslyvania, Virginia, and West Virginia, barns were, and still are, decorated with hex signs. Although nowadays hexes are purely for decoration, the colorful geometric designs were once though to be good luck symbols that would ward of sickness, fire, lightning, and all kinds of evil spirits. the hex sign is attributed to the Mennonites and the amish people who settled in southern Pennslyvania area in the seventeenth century. Early hex signs were drawn mostly with straight lines, but later barn artists began using curves and circular patterns." keeps going for a while and then, " Typical signs, almost always within a circle, include stars with four, five, six eight, ten , sixteen, and up to thirty-two points. The stars are usually decorated with symbols and the hex sign painted in yellow, white, red, and black. Many hexes are done in only one or two colors, however. A white stripe painted around a barn door to ward of the devil was another hex 'design'." Here are some meanings for hex signs: "a four pointed star brings good luck. a five pointed star protects barns from lightning and demons and represents the five senses and good health. a double five pointed star is a sign of the sun or good weather. a six pointed star represents love or a good marriage. a seven pointed star is a ward against all evil. an eight pointed star is a sign of good will, freedom, and land ownership. a twelve pointed star represents knowledge, wisdom, and sincerity. a sixteen pointed star is a symbol of justice." [This message has been edited by bent one (edited 05-10-2005).] |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-10-2005 02:29 PM
if you want to see what the colors you paint the hex signs with mean go to www.folkart.com and go to the "what's new in may of 2005" section hex signs is right there |
Maria Moderator
|
posted 05-10-2005 03:16 PM
Nice. Perhaps some research on hex signs ought to be done, to trace the source of these drawings. But I'm not sure if castle-builders used them. Horse-shoes perhaps, but that's all I know. Were nobles using the same signs as common people? Or did they have a higher intellectual standard?(I guess not). |
Peter Member
|
posted 05-10-2005 03:39 PM
This is rather a complicated subject. As many buildings, castles and churches, were built to specific mathematical formula. One that springs too mind is in Italy, the castle of 'Castel del Monte' in Apulia, Sth. Italy. This castle (which it is not!) is likened to a clock and a calendar. In a previous forum I have mentioned Leonardo di Vinci. He dabbled in all arts, and knew no boundries. Hence there was a great overlap in anything he did. This also applied to many other Italians of that period. Just wish I had the time to prattle on a little more. But check del Monte out. Peter |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-10-2005 04:40 PM
I think that hex signs were around before they came to america. either I or you will have to do some research. at the folkart place they give some information that is a little bit different than the book I have. they say that it was pennslyvania dutch/german. I know that a whole lot of different old world cultures got here very early in the developement of America so it was quite likely it came from europe. |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-10-2005 05:25 PM
see www.amishnews.com/hexsigns.htm it has some of the history about them from europe and has some book titles there. a good page to read.A book on the subject of hex signs and their meanings is "Hex Signs Pennslyvania Dutch Barn Symbols & Their Meaning. [This message has been edited by bent one (edited 05-10-2005).] |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-10-2005 05:41 PM
we also need to consider that geometry was important to design for strategic reasons. For example I am aware that there are fortresses in Europe that are star shaped with many points protruding out of them, this was also important to the design of Civil war fortifications, these points were called redans. they were very useful because they could divide an attacking force into pieces and then you would have a crossfire in between the points, sometimes called salients. I think there is one in france but it has been a long time since I saw the picture.Has anyone else seen star shaped castles? |
Merlin Senior Member
|
posted 05-11-2005 07:30 AM
For a groundfloor-plan of Castel del Monte, built by emperor Friedrich II. in the early 13th century, have a look at the portrait of this "castle" at www.burgenwelt.de: Direct link: www.dickemauern.de/casteldelmonte/grrav.htm
|
Merlin Senior Member
|
posted 05-11-2005 07:40 AM
Star-shaped fortresses and city-walls were often built in europe during the 17th century. For example, the fortresses built by the earl of Rohan during his campaign in Raetia (eastern Switzerland). Here's a picture of the one above Susch: www.picswiss.ch/Land08/GR-11-03.html |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-11-2005 09:25 AM
now that is a thing of beauty. I like those protrusions at the top because it prevented ladders. If you built a work to get to the top you'd still have to pull some tricky manuevers to get around those spikes. was that fort ever taken and if so how did they do it? That's very awesome! |
Maria Moderator
|
posted 05-11-2005 12:11 PM
I have once visited a star shaped fortification once, it's in Oradea, the north-vest of Romania. It now hosts the Art University of Oradea. http://www.lego.rdsor.ro/oradea/image/cetateve.jpg |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-11-2005 03:11 PM
exceptional! why were these kinds of forts built so recent in comparison to other kind of castles was it just the evolution of tactics when defending a position? Or was it the more powerful weapons that were becoming available? |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-12-2005 09:59 AM
when you take a closer look at that illustration of the romanian fortification look at the closest point on the left side. do you see that it is woven together and filled with earth. I wonder why they did that? Why did they not just build that last point out of stone? do you think that they ran out of materials or something or that an enemy was going to attack so they had to hurriedly make another point? |
Peter Member
|
posted 05-12-2005 03:29 PM
An excellent book on the subject is; Christopher Duffy 'The Fortress in the Age of Vauban and Frederick the Great 1660-1789@ ISBN 0-7100-9648-8 Masses of pic's plans etc. Visting some of these cities is an eye-opener. Check out the Tuscan city of Lucca. Made it there a few years ago. In north Italy there is Parma. You can see this one when flying over, like a great big star. As Merlin hints, Europe is abound with them from one side to the other. Peter |
ipflo Moderator
|
posted 05-12-2005 03:46 PM
with regard to the picture of cetateve I think the fortress was attacked while the building was in process, so they hurriedly woven the bastion. It does not really matter, as all the bastions are ultimately filled with earth and as far as i know this was also the critical succes factor, because earth is best in absorbing the energy of a canon ball. The stone was only used for the outside, but some on with more knowledge better me when i am wrong.ipflo |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-12-2005 04:51 PM
since earth is an excellent shock absorber and all the other good properties about it why did they use stone on the outside? was it to keep people from digging through? During the civil war it was a common union suicidal tactic to run up the earthwork. do you think that stone made this tactic difficult or almost impossible to achieve. I think this because you could get a smooth surface with stone and it could be built very steep. perhaps that was the reason stone was used at all after the invention of cannons, as a case to put earth in. |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-12-2005 05:10 PM
I've been wondering about 5 pointed stars lately. I was reading Faust the last week and in the story the demon Mephistopheles goes and visits faust in his study to talk with him. This leads to a rather humorous event where Mephistopheles is trapped in Faust's study because of an unfinished pentagram that is on the threshold. It seems that demons and ghosts, according to mephistopheles, had to go out the way they came in. As Mephistopheles says "the matter now seems turned about; the devils in the house and can't get out." While studying and drawing hex signs my sources say that they were protection against demons and other calamities. How is it that in faust and in peoples opinions that the five pointed star is a sign of witchcraft? |
Maria Moderator
|
posted 05-14-2005 02:15 PM
As far as I know, Pithagora is "to blame" about this. He considered math to be very close to religion and the pithagorian sign was a pentagon with a five pointed star inside. |
bent one Senior Member
|
posted 05-16-2005 06:09 PM
Is that the same pythagora that came up with the theorem about right triangles? I think that he started a cult about how everything is represented by a number. I was playing around this weekend with hex signs and I made a 36 pointed star! I don't have any idea of what it means because my book stops at sixteen points. My grandmother is interested in using the designs for quilts that she makes. |