Author
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Topic: dungeons
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KyeDean Member
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posted 09-02-99 04:38 PM
Would it be even remotely possible for a castle built at any period in history to have a jail-like cell with bars and a key? I'm writing a children's picture book which demands such a situation and, while I'm going for entertainment rather than for historical accuracy, I would be interested in knowing the answer. Thank you!
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wurdsmiff unregistered
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posted 09-23-99 07:39 AM
Yes, and an outstanding examples survive and is open to the public at Mdina in Malta, and in Valletta at St Elmos Fort (where the prison scenes for Midnight Express were filmed). OK Mdina is a walled city and not a castle, and St Elmos is technically a fort, but broader definitions would include them, and both are definately mediaeval. Malta has many mediaval fortifications, as does it's sister island of Gozo. The islands of the Malta were strategically important throughout history, and the coastline is dotted with watch towers and MAJOR fortifications. Well worth a holiday.
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Philip Davis unregistered
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posted 09-24-99 04:01 PM
It seems a shame to distort history for children. Whilst it is probably true that some iron barred cells and cages existed in most periods of history, the more common experiences for medieval prisoners are just as interesting. High status prisoners were, on the whole, imprisoned in fairly nice rooms with servants and some luxury (read about the imprisonment of Mary Queen of Scots) Low status prisoners were bundled into cellars (often many together) while waiting the judge and then freed, mutilated or executed. Special prison cells were usual built by Lords who had special judicial rights and wanted to make these clear. In particular the castles of Bishops often have clear prison cells as they had special authority for church law, which sometimes conflicted with the kings authority, and they wanted to make the point. The cells of low status prisoners were usually storage cellars on the ground floor of castles with either no window at all or a very small window high in the wall, possible with iron bars. This was to make the castle walls solid and resistant to attack rather than to keep prisoners from escaping, although it also did this. The doors were usually of solid oak with strong iron fittings, I can't think of any examples of pure iron grated doors in castles except for the exterior Yetts of late medieval Scottish castles. Solid oak doors may well have had small hatches in them though. Keys have certainly existed for many thousands of years and whilst they were expensive I imagine the relatively wealthy people who built castles would certainly have invested in at least one strong locked room and probably several. However, many doors were just strongly barred and you can still see the hole were the large wooden bar slotted into the stone wall to block the doors at most stone castles. This having been said, their are some example of british castles that fill your description. Kidwely castle, a bishops castle, has a couple of cells in the gate house with simple toilets and tiny windows and a bottle cell (with the entrance in the roof of the cell) [Clerical law dealt with clerics and with some specific crimes, usually sexual, such as adultery, sodomy and onanism - what sort of crime is your prisoner accused of?)------------------ Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them, Psychiatrists charge the rent, art therapists do the interior design and nurses clean out the garderobes!
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wurdsmiff unregistered
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posted 09-24-99 04:50 PM
Philip's points are certainly relevant, and it must be said that the dungeons at Mdina were built at a time when the Spanish Inquisitors wanted to pen up large numbers of prisoners. You should also view the discussion originated by Zaire on the same topic, to which both Philip & I have contributed. Whilst being very familiar with Queen Mary's confinement in Loch Leven, and in a variety of establishments south of the border, I am reminded also of the stories of David Duke of Rothesay and Sir Alexander Ramsey of Dalwolsey both high born and alleged to have died of starvation in poor conditions of imprisonment. Both apparently had their agongy prolonged by smalls trickles of food coming their way. Duke David allegedly by a nursing mother who allowed her milk to trickle through a crack in the wall, and the bold Lothian lord, who survived on grains of corn which fell through a crack in the ceiling from a store above. I agree that historical accuracy is important, though what constitutes accuracy would depend on the setting of your story.
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KyeDean Member
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posted 09-25-99 12:51 PM
A big thank you to wurdsmiff and Philip Davis for the information on dungeons. Not only is it very helpful to me in writing my children's book but enormously interesting too. I'll be revisiting this website just for enjoyment! Thanks again, KyeDean
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