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Author
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Topic: Ageism?
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wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-04-1999 04:57 AM
Recently Historic Scotland spent a great deal of money, time and effort in restoring The Great Hall at Stirling Castle. They have done a remarkable job, having paid great attention to detail in an attempt to take the place back to it's 'new built' state, as it was in the days of James 1V of Scotland. By doing this they have aroused a deal of controversy (and press coverage). The problem is that they have done such a good job, that people are complaining that they have taken away the feeling of age about the place by destroying it's worn appearance. The most noticable example of this is the application of harling to the exterior of the hall, whilst the remainder of the castle retains the centuries of grime which gave it it's familiar blackened appearance. One commentator likened it to a Belisha Beacon on a dark night. What do you think, should some concession be made in restoration to give the impression of age? Should they have toned down the harling a bit to avoid the stark contrast with the remainder of the castle, or should they similarily treat the rest risking more controversy? ------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm |
Philip Davis
unregistered
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posted 12-04-1999 10:50 AM
I personally am a great believer in diversity. Whilst there are clearly wrong ways of presenting historic buildings (ie the disastrous victorian restoration of St Albans Abbey) their are also several right ways of presenting historic building. The old British Ministry of Works always presented castles to show architertural features, thus plants were striped from the walls of ruins and outlines of foundations were highlighted in surrounding lawns. Latterly this type of presentation is under attack for presenting building in a very artificial way, a manner in which the building never existed. Recently English Heritage has spent a million pounds on consolidating Wigmore castle in a way that has the castle looking like it has for the last three hundred years; an ivy covered ruin. I've copied a long section from Jeffrey Thomas's Castles of Wales Newsletter at the end of this posting for those interested. In my opinion their are enough castles for a variety of methods of presentation to be employed providing that the structure of the building remains intact. The building should then be judged by criteria set for that particular form of presentation.Unfortunately with history Politics and politics are often close to the surface. People who are particularly resistant to change (conservatives) are often attracted to history as an interest because they can feel that the past was a understandable and quantifiable world. I certainly have met people who are very rigid in how things were done in the past (ie Rushlight were made with 70% mutton fat/30% bacon fat) rather than being able to accept that even in the past there were different ways of doing things (ie rushlight were made with whatever fats were available). With such people presenting a different view of the past is an attack on their zietgeist and will result in a response quite disproportionate to the issue - A thing of which newspaper editors are well aware.
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Wigmore Castle Revisited
Last month we presented new photographs for Wigmore Castle in Herefordshire. We also mentioned the new and different conservation approach adopted by English Heritage for conserving the site. This month we feature an interesting press release from English Heritage providing further information about the Wigmore Castle project. Thanks once again to Andrew Selkirk of Current Archaeology magazine for providing us with this important news. HEADLINE
English Heritage Spends £1 Million and Saves a Castle in Ruin English Heritage today (October 12, 1999) opened the last great medieval castle in England which, until English Heritage acquired in in 1996, had never been repaired or conserved. After three years of work costing almost £1 million, Wigmore Castle in Herefordshire, looks like it has done for the last 200 years. Sir Jocelyn Stevens, Chairman of English Heritage, speaking at the opening, said: "Three years ago Wigmore Castle was about to collapse. It was one of the most vulnerable historic monuments in England. Having visited the castle with my commissioners we decided to save it and adopt an entirely new approach to its conservation and preservation. We would consolidate the ruins so that the castle would remain a romantic ruin forever. Once again we have fulfilled our promise, coming in ahead of time and under budget. As a result Wigmore Castle's spectacular ruins will continue to dominate their wild and windswept hilltop for many generations to come. "The fragile ecology of the site, with species of plants and animals little changed since the early 1700s, has been left intact. Likewise, much of the castle's past lies buried, eight metres deep beneath the surface - a time-capsule and one of the most important archaeological sites in England, undisturbed. "Everyone from schoolchildren to academics, will have access to the fully digitised three dimensional record that we have made of the Castle, which is probably the most complete computerised record of any site in Britain. "Had we adopted the traditional approach, one which we and our colleagues in CADW and Historical Scotland have used in the past, we would have excavated the entire site to reveal buried buildings. We would have laid out the site as something it never was, a ruin with neat grass lawns. The fallen debris would have been removed, formal paths laid and concrete steps, metal railings, litter bins, a custodian's hut, a car park, lavatories, a shop, perhaps even a 'heritage center' imposed. There would have been bossy notices everywhere with worn patches and puddles where people had stood to read about what they were looking at. There would be warnings about dangerous ancient monuments are. "Instead, we have kept the promise I made three years ago that the Castle would remain untouched and the spirit of the place intact. I want every visitor to feel they are discovering for themselves Wigmore, the magical, evocative and mysterious ruin which invites exploration, vivid with wild flowers and sustaining a remarkably rich and flourishing wildlife." At Wigmore English Heritage has developed an 'organic' method of making ruins safe. Instead of imposing on the ruins an inappropriate 'textbook' programme of restoration and presentation, experts felt their way forward, using experimental techniques, learning as they went from what the castle had to teach. English Heritage also took the unusual step for us of employing an ecologist on the team. His expertise, combined with that of English Heritage's own landscape specialists and our health and safety advisor, is responsible for the successful use of nature itself - the planting of dense and hostile native species of thorn, bramble and nettle - to deter visitors from dangerous zones. At Wigmore, the walls and wildlife are mutually dependent. Tufts of grass and wildflowers temporarily removed from the wall tops during the works were kept alive in special tubs. Now back in place they will help protect the walls from frost and cracking. Even ivy, reinstated, will shield rather than invade the walls. A visit to Wigmore Castle is free but not for everyone. There are no visitor facilities. It is a hard walk to the top of the hill. Children must not go alone. We have worked with the local authority and the people of the village to ensure that visitors neither disturb the peace and character of Wigmore nor, through their numbers, destroy the very experience they have come to enjoy. Rob Williams, English Nature's Three Counties Team Manager, said, "We give a warm welcome to this outstanding example of work which combines the conservation of flora and fauna with the preservation of the site. "Here at Wigmore Castle, there is a real biodiversity gain for Herefordshire, with the conservation of scarce plants like the Southern Polypody Fern and a rare animal, the Lesser Horseshoe Bat, for which English Heritage has made special provision." To learn more visit the English Heriaage web site at: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/ And don't forget the Current Archaeology web site at: http://www.archaeology.co.uk/ Wigmore Castle page at the Castles of Wales web site: http://www.castlewales.com/wigmore.html Wigmore Castle time line (a new page) http://www.castlewales.com/wig_time.html
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Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them, Psychiatrists charge the rent, art therapists do the
interior design and nurses clean out the garderobes!
http://www.castlesontheweb.com/members/philipdavis/index.html |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-04-1999 05:05 PM
Thanks for a lenghty and interesting response Philip. To be honest, I don't have a strong opinion on this one way or the other, though it's certainly an eye catching way of attracting publicity. It is also one of the most radical renovations to have been carried out by either of our(Scottish) National bodies, and I find it interesting that we (for once ) are seeing a thing appearing as it was when built, rather than conceding authenticity to the pressure of tourists expectations. By that I mean that often renovations are carried out by these bodies in such a way as to enhance the feeling of age about the place.
Whilst admitting that I've still to have a close up view of the work, I have the impression that the Hall is now at odds with the remainder of the castle by looking as though it is brand new.
I think it may have been more a case of Historic Scotland upsetting the characteristically limited views of many, rather than the newspapers, though the latter also saw the advantages of such an approach.
I am interested in the views of any one who has an opinion on this, aged look, or new look? Individual approach to each site or manicured lawns everywhere? Loads of information, or leave enough to stimulate the imagination?------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-04-1999 05:16 PM
Thanks also for your response Savoy, again I was caught out since your reply came in as I was typing mine.
Though I tend toward authenticity and have no objection to harling, since it is the traditional method of waterproofing the house, I can also see the attractiveness of unharled stone. A recent renovation of a small surviving section of Darnley Castle in my area, led to the attached mill buildings being harled, whilst the attached round tower and single room that constituted the remaining portion of the castle was left untreated. An attractive if unusual contrast which highlights the original structure. The whitewashed portion is now in use as a restaurant, and the old bit as ? a store. Hope they adopted some other form of waterproofing!
It's now 1.10 am over here and I start work in five and a bit hours so must get some sleep. Will give a more considered response tomorrow!------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm |
Philip Davis
unregistered
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posted 12-05-1999 09:03 AM
I was very interested by Savoy's response, which gives a very good example of the point I was trying to make. The response people make to restorations and new presentations of the past can be much more extreme than one would expect and you need to be prepared for that response (as cleadly CADW were not). I would love to see what would happen if the White Tower of the Tower of London was whitewashed, as it's name clearly shows it once was. It would then match the surrounding modern concrete buildings of London much more closely and look much less castle like.------------------
Neurotics build castles in the air, psychotics live in them, Psychiatrists charge the rent, art therapists do the interior design and nurses clean out the garderobes!
http://www.castlesontheweb.com/members/philipdavis/index.html
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wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-05-1999 12:49 PM
I agree that often public response to such renovative work is extreme on occasion, and the response at Stirling although impassioned, has not as far as I am aware become bitter enough to induce events such as the assaults on the contractors mentioned above. I am in favour of any restoration work, with the preference that it should be in harmony with the state of the building at some earlier stage in it's history. While it is okay for Craigievar ( as mentioned elsewhere) to have a pinkish wash to colour the harling, I doubt if it would be accepted at Ballytarsna or anywhere else where it was not a previous feature. It would seem to me that the approach adopted by Savoy is both the sensible and correct way to go about things, where a programme of community education be taken up before commencing the work. I agree with what you have both said, that there are those who rather than renovate, want to 'freeze' and preserve their valuable buildings as they are, rather than better that by returning them to their original condition. Could it be that in doing so we destroy their fantasy of what things had been like by showing them what it was really like, and in some way take away the validity of their interpretation, and any pride or authority they take from it ?
In other words are they afraid of being seen to be wrong?
Or is it simply that they afraid of seeing things change?
Historic Scotland have pointed out that in carrying out the restoration they are undoing 350 years of use as a military depot.
350 years of people viewing the castle in the same way, and now it is returning to an original state. Could it be that some view that as losing 350 years of the castles history?
The White Tower of London would certainly be an interesting case scenario!------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-06-1999 05:13 AM
Let us know what you decide to do Savoy. I would be interested in the public response if you go ahead with harling.------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm |
John Ball
Senior Member
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posted 12-06-1999 05:02 PM
 
Harling is not only authentic but good mainteance. Go for it Savoy! |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-07-1999 03:42 AM
More likely spiked and sat upon the walls of Dublin, though I wish you a much kinder fate!
If you win over a few of the locals, then the reaction of the rest may be less intense. Have you thought about some sort of educational display with archive material included on the castle (and possibly others)?
This need not be directly aimed at stating your case for harling(that might inflame the unconverted), but a general thing to give people some idea of how much research you have put into the work. Winning respect that way and showing publicly that you know what you are doing may gain you some trust, even if just by showing that you are willing to be open about it. I'm sure you have already given this much thought, these are just (hopefully) helpful suggestions.------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-07-1999 01:53 PM
Glad to hear it. I wouldn't worry too much about capital punishment then!------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm |
Levan
Moderator
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posted 12-11-1999 10:45 AM
HiCastle Levan (Gourock) caused a stir because of it's pink harling - folks wanted to know why we painted it such a gairish colour (actually it only really looks pink at dusk). The pink colour of the harling comes from the Dunblane sandstone that was used - there's no paint at all. Before its restoration, Castle Levan also had remains of harling that was applied in the 14th century. Much effort was made to get the correct colour match. At Levan the harling was applied not so much to protect it from the rain, but from the salt spray that's enthusiastically blasted against the surface by frequent gale-force winds! One of the benefits of harling over other forms of render is that it is flexible and breathable - rather less likely to drop off the surface in big lumps. A disadvantage, we can assure you, is that after several weeks of persistant rain (like the last three weeks) water eventually leeches through to the inside surfaces - best repelled by lots of heat! Levan |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-11-1999 01:46 PM
Nice to hear from you again Levan, and thank you for your comments. I'm interested in your comment about water leaching. Are there technical difficulties in using modern clear waterproofing agents over the harling?
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'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm |
duncan
Senior Member
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posted 12-11-1999 03:57 PM
Hate to be a party pooper, but any waterproofing we have here makes things shiny.{like the Taj Mahal} Daylight really makes things shimmer.
Any body else know a matte finish in water proofing for rock?
Levan, I checked again and I was unable to find any water proofing that meets your needs gale force winds aren't easy to contend with I would think. Hopefully something is sold in Scottland that might help. Sorry the Taj Mahal is an inside bad joke. It was'ent meant as an insult by no means![This message has been edited by duncan (edited 12-12-1999).] |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-12-1999 10:26 AM
Whilst anything which is wet will have a glossy appearance unless it is absorbent, I would rather that than have a shimmer on the interior walls of my solar.
"Thompson's Water Seal", and "Water Seal Ultra", apparently world brand leaders, are absorbed by the stone, though may slightly darken it. Apparently a slight glossy appearance is noticable on larger smooth surfaces, and for this reason the manufacturers have introduced a matt finish version of their product, although slightly more expensive.
No offence taken at the 'Taj Mahal', and I hope , none taken by this.------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm [This message has been edited by wurdsmiff (edited 12-12-1999).] |
Levan
Moderator
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posted 12-19-1999 05:58 AM
Regarding the problem of water leaching through our harling. I'm assured by a number of experts that it best not to attempt applying any modern waterproof 'over-coat' - it's more like to increase damp problems by preventing moisture escaping. One way or another, water will get in, and the best defense is to let it get out as quickly as possible!Levan |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 12-19-1999 06:33 AM
Thank you Levan, that makes sense, though it must be expensive to heat the house in winter (even just to keep it warm). Can you tell me if any damp coursing or other precautions were added at renovation? Was any form of heat insulation added?
Incidently, a pencil drawing of your house 100 or so years ago by McGibbon & Ross, has been added to my page at
http://www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/c.htm
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'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm [This message has been edited by wurdsmiff (edited 12-19-1999).] |
wurdsmiff
unregistered
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posted 01-26-2000 04:42 PM
A little bit late in the day, but I've just visited the Great Hall at Stirling, and have added some photos to the Photo archive. Look up Scottish Castles and you'll find them. There's some stained glass, tapestry,a hammer beam roof, that harling and a few others too. Hope you all enjoy!------------------
'Give me the groves that lofty brave,
The storms, by Castle Gordon'.
Visit my web-site at
www.castlesontheweb.com/members/wurdsmiff/castles.htm Gordon. | |
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