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Author	Topic: Languages?
Mustang Senior Member	posted 03-21-2002 10:47 AM Gordon, Just out of curiousity.....do you speak a foreign language of some sort? I've always seen something to the effect of 'demeure par la verite' that's french I believe..... Ashley
Peter Member	posted 03-21-2002 02:37 PM Of course he does he's Scottish. Whoops! Better duck quick.
Gordon unregistered	posted 03-21-2002 07:48 PM Whitdyameanyawelshsoandso! (whatever are you implying you person of Cymric origin) No I don't speak any languages other than English and Glaswegiana. I do have a little very rusty French from my School Days, but the Motto 'Demeure par la verite' is French and apparently translates as 'stand fast by the truth'. It is apparently the motto of one branch of the Mason family. It seemed appropriate at the time. ------------------ 'Demeure par la verite' Visit; Gordon's Scottish Castles Resource Page [This message has been edited by Gordon (edited 03-21-2002).]
toughguy12 Senior Member	posted 03-22-2002 12:27 AM Gordon, Where counry does the language Glaswegiana come from? ------------------ toughguy12
AJR Senior Member	posted 03-22-2002 04:12 AM It's that strange lingo spoken within the boundaries of the City of Glasgow, Scotland. Us Southerners (south of London)have extreme difficulty in understanding Glaswegiana. They appear to have dozens of phrases that are completely unintelligible and have no direct translation into any other language. Just as well Gordon speaks English too !!!
Mustang Senior Member	posted 03-22-2002 10:37 AM Gordon, that's what I thought.....I'm in my third year of french at school and I thought that was what it meant but I wanted to be sure before I said something stupid!! As far as the other language goes......that's interesting and I learned a new fact today!! Thank you! Mustang
duncan Senior Member	posted 03-22-2002 10:41 AM Gordon has to speak English for when he makes his cross the border sorties into England, how else would he order food and drink?
Peter Member	posted 03-22-2002 03:17 PM I'd rather face a few pints with Gordon than some of my old mates in Newcastle land. Two or three pints of Newcie Brown and I'm reaching for the guide book. And talking of castles, Newcastle is one hell of an interesting city. Very overlooked in its fortifications, and the remains of its excellent city walls.
Mustang Senior Member	posted 03-26-2002 11:04 AM Sounds like a plan!
Gordon unregistered	posted 03-26-2002 03:58 PM Parliamo Glasgow and Glaswegiana were the phrases used by the great comic Stanley Baxter in his TV shows and books when he succesfully 'formalised' the 'Glesca' dialect whilst providing a great deal of humour by self characature. 'Gerrit!' 'Gerrafmabakyaweehairy' Each phrase should be pronounced harshly, spoken rapidly and as it appears to get a feel for how things are here. Translation...and Mustang, no offence is intended, this was one of Baxters own phrases which typify the often insulting nature of it all..but of course it's water off a ducks back up here... ger-raf ...get off, ma-back ...my back, collectively these phrases mean leave me alone. yaweehairy...you uncouth, illeducated little woman! Gerrit!...get it i.e. do you understand? The humour came from Baxter's excellent acting skills in projecting the voice and accent of the Glaswegian, then giving his translation in his best Oxford linguistics professor accent. But then again , I suppose you had to see it, he was hilarious, and his choice of phrases were so very typical of Glasgow, anyone who has been here would have heard them. [This message has been edited by Gordon (edited 03-26-2002).]
toughguy12 Senior Member	posted 03-26-2002 10:40 PM I'm guessing that the people couldn't speak English very well............? ------------------ *toughguy12*
Gordon unregistered	posted 03-27-2002 07:44 AM No, we speak English very well, but as with all languages there can be some local and regional variation. This is what a dialect is. I'm sure it's the same where you are too Toughguy, English speaking visitors from further afield having difficulty understanding accents and localised terms. It happens everywhere with all languages.
Mustang Senior Member	posted 03-27-2002 10:48 AM Indeed gordon, you do have a point....I know some people who speak more than one language and yet they speak english very well.... Toughguy, I should caution you not to jump to conclusions with people who speak a language other than english natively. For instance, a person who speaks German as their native language may speak english very well. What I'm saying is that I think that, and Gordon correct me if I'm wrong, the language that he speaks of was concocted more for convience than lack of knowlledge! Just a thought...... Oh, and yes gordon....I do understand you're interesting explanation..
Gordon unregistered	posted 03-27-2002 05:08 PM Thank you Mustang, it's fairly easily understood when written, but understanding the spoken version of any dialect can be tough, especially as Peter said, after a few Brown Ales!
Erik Schmidt Senior Member	posted 03-28-2002 02:31 AM Interesting topic, something I have some experience in. My mother spoke 7 languages when in her 20's, but has lost the ability for some due to lack of use. I personally speak three languages, my native tongue now being English(Australian that is), but it used to be Danish. Because I learnt English when I was still young, I have no accent, but my mother and father do because they learnt it when adults. I have met many Europeans who speak English with almost no native accent(such as Danes) because they learn English from a young age in School(4th grade I think). You can even tell the country from which the English teacher came in some cases due to the slight British or American accent. Just a point about dialects. Merlin would be able to tell you more about this, but in the Germanic parts of Switzerland they speak many dialects of Swissgerman, and these dialects vary to such an extent over short distances that people from some areas cannot be understood by people from other parts.
Mustang Senior Member	posted 03-28-2002 10:43 AM Yes, I also know a dane who speaks english but his family and he himself all speak danish. He has absolutely no accent! Peter, I find that very interesting that your mother could speak 20 languages! That's quite an impressive accomplishment. I speak two. Very bland compared to your mother's twenty. But I do believe that language is quite interesting when it's really thought about! It's also a great deal of fun
Peter Member	posted 03-28-2002 03:49 PM Not my Mum Mustang ... Cymraeg & English Only. I'm a duffer when it comes to languages. Just having my English, not too bad Italian, and some Welsh (Rubbish French, which I leave to my wife).
Erik Schmidt Senior Member	posted 03-29-2002 03:50 AM No, NO, Mustang. My mother spoke 7 languages when she was in her 20's. Not 20 languages! I agree, 20 would be quite a feat, but 7 is certainly pretty impressive.
Fox Atreides Senior Member	posted 03-29-2002 07:27 AM Oh, let me count, I can speak Dutch and English quite well, and I'm in the learning process for French, German and Latin. That'll be 5 then, in the future... ------------------ -Matt- *The world can be as you want, when you are as the world wants you.*
duncan Senior Member	posted 03-29-2002 08:27 AM American and English is my every day languages. I've been studying and refreshing what i learned in my child hood of Irish, Gaelic and old Latin for several years now, and with patience Gordon has been teaching me Scottish for quite a while too. Throw in a little Vietnamese/Cambodian/Thai and some Central American. Does Oklahomian count?
Gordon unregistered	posted 03-29-2002 03:47 PM Only in Oklahoma!! A bit like Glaswegiana in Glasgow.
Mustang Senior Member	posted 04-01-2002 01:18 PM LOL. I'm sorry, I misunderstood! Yes, 20 would be quite a feat but 7 is indeed impressive All languages count I suppose....oklahomian included....I myself speak french, english, Ohioan ( we in Ohio seem to have our own little vocabulary such as calling soda, pop), a little italian and pig latin. Not a very impressive resume, but amusing none the less! Gordon...oklahomian counts all over because the lingo they speak there may have a influence on someone else and they may start to speak it therefore spreading the language! -Ashley
Gordon unregistered	posted 04-01-2002 05:19 PM Awayanbileyerheid!
Fox Atreides Senior Member	posted 04-02-2002 12:44 PM Hora ruit, tempus fluit! ------------------ -Matt- *The world can be as you want, when you are as the world wants you.*
Lili Senior Member	posted 04-02-2002 10:41 PM Hello, Wie geht's? Thought I'd join in...I speak native English (Australian) and German. About the dialect discussion - when I was in Bavaria; southern Germany it was just as Erik suggested - you travel into the next town and the native dialect was hard to understand, but then I'm not a native speaker. When we spoke 'hochdeutsch' or 'high german' this was the common language. I'm sure the German members of CQ could explain this better. In Australia there is sometimes a different accent and lingo for each state. For example, Victorians say 'icy pole' and South Australians 'ice block'.
Merlin Senior Member	posted 04-04-2002 06:38 AM As Eric suggested, I realy can tell you something about dialects in Switzerland. As some of you may know, Switzerland, even if it's one of the smallest countries in Europe, is a collection of 26 States (Cantons) and has 4 official languages (german, french, italian, romanic). Almost every Canton has its own dialect of one (or even two or three) of these languages. Most extreme is the Canton Graub�nden in the east of Switzerland. It consits of many differnet valleys and almost every valley has its own dialect. Some speak a special kind of swiss-german, others speak italian, and the rest speaks romanic in many different dialects. The problem is that romanic is a 'dying language' and urgently needs an official written form (for boooks, newspapers, etc.). Some years ago, some people wrote a dictionary with the new standard-romanic (Rumantsch Grischun) for all publications in the language. The effect was a fight between the regions and their dialects, because every valley was afraid that its special words would be lost...
Peter Member	posted 04-04-2002 02:27 PM This could go on a long time. As someone who travels to Italy a lot, it is worth reminding people that modern Italian is still taught as a first language. Not the local Italian ! We normally travel to Piemonte which has its own dialect. This looks nothing like modern Italian in its written form. Yer okay in the city ... but when out in the boondocks .. beware !
Gordon unregistered	posted 04-04-2002 04:31 PM Yes Peter,this could go on for ever, but before anyone shuts it down, I'd like to thank Mustang for starting off one of our bestest non-castle discussions. It was a bit of fun, as well as being seriously interesting. Merlin, with all those different dialects, how on earth do the folks understand one another?? ------------------ 'Demeure par la verite' Visit; Gordon's Scottish Castles Resource Page
Erik Schmidt Senior Member	posted 04-05-2002 03:08 AM Gordon, everyone is taught 'high' German in school and it is the offical language for all of Switzerland. I find it quite interesting when I go to Switzerland as I can't speak German very well, but can speak the Luzern area Swissgerman dialect which I learnt from my mother's side of the family. But because I don't live there, even some relatives will automatically speak German to me until I prod them to switch to the dialect. This is the way it is. People speak their dialect amongst themselves and German to outsiders, except for the French speakers who want everyone to speak French. They have a reputaion for being...well...arrogant. Right Merlin. Erik
Merlin Senior Member	posted 04-05-2002 05:34 AM Gordon: As Eric already said, everyone learns german in school, but besides the swiss-german-speakers only the romanic and most of the italian-speakers can talk together in that language very well. If you want to work with the gouvernment in Berne, you have to be almost bilingual (french and german) to get a job in a higher position. And all official documents are available in all four languages. Maybe you'll see one of the planes of our new airline �Swiss� the next time you're on an airport; the name is written in english and also in german, french, italian and romanic on every side of the airplanes.
Gordon unregistered	posted 04-05-2002 03:34 PM It's a bit like that up here. If I go visiting to any other part of Scotland, they all have their own dialect and strong accents. The further you get from home the harder it gets. I've got family in Buchan.... I take a translator for a visit to the pub. I've picked up a few words, but it's the speed of the chatter that gets you! ------------------ 'Demeure par la verite' Visit; Gordon's Scottish Castles Resource Page
Mustang Senior Member	posted 04-06-2002 01:17 PM My goodness, we have a lot to talk about! Oh, and you're welcome for starting this topic....I was just curious about languages and it did turn out to be quite interesting!! Oh....I just did my scheduling and I will also take french 4 and latin!! So I can add that to my list but I still won't catch up with all of you that speak so much more Ashley
Gordon unregistered	posted 04-06-2002 06:00 PM We always welcome an interesting and stimulating discussion, and The Solar provides the opportunity to get away from the same old same old castle questions for awhile.....a bit of R&R! ------------------ 'Demeure par la verite' Visit; Gordon's Scottish Castles Resource Page
Levan Moderator	posted 04-24-2002 07:04 PM Back a pace to the Newcastle stuff... I've just been to the castle there - superb, cheap to get in, atmospheric, and all accessible. You wouldn't believe how many locals didn't know that the castle still stands! I had to argue with one chap that he couldn't miss it if he were ever to take the train out of Newcastle - it's pinned into a cleft between two viaducts. Oh well. Hang on, nearly missed the main point I was getting to... right opposite the castle is a pub with a superb range of championship winning real ales - just what you need to wash down the huge portions of good value food. My portion of ham, egg and chips, quality side salad simply flowed over the sides of a servng platter. Great castle - good pub - a fine combination in my book (plus sea views, I guess, would be my next step to bliss). For the record, my own accent is a strange mix of Derbyshire (northern English - some think it's Yorkshire) and Greenockian (which to many seems a more extreme version of Glaswegian). Nowadays, the Derbyshire twang is dominating as I'm spending far too much time in England (please preserve me from picking-up a London accent!). Levan Pronounced "Ler Van" rather than "lee-ven" which is what most people try to say (imagine a kind of French-style pronunciation of "Le Vin", although it's actually an anglicised version of a Gaelic word). [This message has been edited by Levan (edited 04-24-2002).]
Matt12345 Member	posted 05-02-2002 07:03 PM In response to Gordon, if you read any of the Redwall books by Bryan Jacques, who is from Liverpool (England?), he uses the Gerrafmebackblahblahblah stuff with some of his characters. The series is based on fictional animal warriors, and regular people that live in a castle called Redwall Abbey. The mole characters he creates talk just like that. I'm not sure if he knew about that language, or it just came to him that moles would maybe talk like that. The books are very interesting, and I reccomend them. They're fun to read. Once I get going, I cant stop reading em
Matt12345 Member	posted 05-02-2002 07:09 PM Correction: No people are in the books, just animals. So, regular animals I should say. You guys should read some of them. They're funny at times, sad, and exciting. There is so much detail, they make you feel like you're there with them. Heres a little example. Not sure if this is what you guys are talking about. This is from Mattimeo, a book of the Redwall series: "Burr, all oopside backways if'n you arsken oi" "Hurr, quit talken an' get thinkin, Jarge, or you'll never win yon pinkice cake!" That was just a sample. Is that what you guys are talking about, or was it just thought up by the author, and just sounds familiar?